Be Well Presents: A Coping Conversation - "Calling"

Is God calling you? Listen in to our Coping Conversation with Chaplain Kevin, who shares his compelling story of answering the call and saying yes to God. Kevin is interviewed by his ministry partner and wife Kathy.

Kathy:  Welcome. This is Kathy, and today I'm talking with Chaplain Kevin, who, as a young boy, heard a call to ministry on his journey to say yes to God. He encountered obstacles along the way, but ultimately discovered the true meaning of calling. This is “Coping”.

Hi, Kevin. It's great to have you here. It's appropriate that you'll be ending this season, and I'm excited to interview you. 

Kevin: Well, thank you for this opportunity. I'm excited to share my story, and I thought this was a really good idea. 

Kathy: So as I was reviewing your story, I noticed that a theme that is pulled throughout your story is this notion of calling. Could you tell us what your definition of calling is? 

Kevin: Yeah. So I've thought long and hard about this definition, and I think it just comes down to saying yes to God. Tell me what it means to say yes to God. I think when we traditionally think about someone who is called, especially in the Christian church, we think of pastors, ministers, those that work in full time ministry. 

But when I talk about calling, I'm talking more about the idea that all of us are called in whatever vocation we're in, whatever role or title we have, we can dedicate that job, that role that we have back to God. 

Kathy: And can you tell me in your life when you first sensed that you needed to say yes to God, or you began to hear that calling?

Kevin: I can't remember how old I was, but actually, we grew up Catholic, so we were sitting in the middle of Mass with my family and remembering this sense. Almost the way I describe it is like this audible voice of God whispering to me very gently, very compassionately, telling me that one day I'll be the one standing up there. And, um, you know, I didn't really know what that meant, but I just had this leaning or this drawing towards not just sitting in the pew, but, you know, being up on the altar, being part of the service in some way. 

And so, as a good Catholic boy, that led me to becoming an altar boy. I was old enough to be able to start serving en Masse and participate in the service in that way. And I loved it, actually. Our church was very vibrant growing up. 

We had a very charismatic priest who preached very passionately, and I felt very connected to this church community. Growing up and serving as an altar boy felt like a good next step for me. I remember doing that for a few years, and our priest actually was the first person to turn to me and say, kevin, when you get older, you're going to be a priest and you're going to be a really good priest. I'm pretty sure now, as I got older, that he said that to every altar boy. But I took it to heart. I really felt like there was something about what he said that rang true for me, that there's something about my faith and my calling that I needed to be an active participant in the service of people. 

Kathy: Wow, that's quite a story. But it also sounds like a really simple way to begin answering the call is just by saying yes. As you said yes at a young, early age, what opportunities began to come your way? 

Kevin: When I was going into fifth grade, my parents made what seemed like a very radical decision to send my brother and I to a private Christian school. You know, we were Catholic, so sending us to a school that was very, like, Protestant, more Presbyterian leaning was a leap of faith for them to send us to this school. But they felt like it was the right thing for us and felt committed to us having a Christian education, so it's the first time that I would sit in academic classes and hear teachers talk about their personal relationship with God, with Jesus specifically. 

They would do Bible studies and talk about these heroes of faith. There's something about it that I just felt really drawn to and felt like, gosh, I want to live like that. I want to be a hero of faith. I want to live my life in a way that is serving outside of myself, that I'm serving others, that I'm living for a higher purpose, if you will. I remember at that age, I had been just in my heart, sort of asking God questions, like, if you exist, can you reveal yourself to me so I know that you are real, that you exist? The innocence of that age and calling out to God is quite sweet when I think about it now. But God and his majesty and sovereignty answered in a way that I could understand and a way that felt real to me. 

So that Saturday morning, I was at a soccer game, and I remember seeing a rainbow. And when I saw the rainbow, I just was flooded with these emotions and remembering of God to reveal Himself in a real way to me and just felt overcome by what felt like his love for me. And felt like if the God of the universe was making Himself known to me in this way, how can I make myself known to Him with my life? Wow. And I wonder. 

Kathy: For those of us, myself included, who don't have a lot of those experiences, how does God reveal the opportunities to say yes in everyday life? 

Kevin: Such a good question. There was this class I took in seminary that talks about conversion being both this capital C conversion, much like what I described of this very vivid memory of giving my life to God. But then there's this other kind of conversion, and the professor described it as like that you in your heart over a long period of time say yes so often that you don't have a very vivid one time conversion experience, but instead your heart is leaning in the direction of God. And you say yes quietly in your heart so often that it's not something that you remember doing in a drastic way, but something that you've done so faithfully that the conversion is still there. The saying yes is still there, the faith is still there, but that memorable experience is just stretched over our lifetime. 

Kathy: Great. That makes complete sense. You were saying yes as a young boy, and then you got to make like a profession of faith. And then what happens oftentimes I know is that obstacles come in the way of you in experiences and challenges to the call. So what happened in your journey next?

Kevin: So, for me, opposition came in the form first with school academically. I was not a very good student in my middle school and high school years, especially with slowly over time fall more and more behind. They didn't realize then I've come to learn as an adult, having some learning differences and not learning in the traditional academic way. And so that carried on all the way to about my senior year of high school when. 

I actually failed my senior year of high school, if you can believe it. And vowed that I would never go back to school ever again. I just remember being up at night crying with the homework assignments that I just couldn't couldn't get myself to do. Whether it was because of these mental blocks, because of my learning differences, or just because I was so far behind at that point that I just didn't understand what I was supposed to be doing and really felt alone, like I didn't have a lot of help. 

But it was my senior year. There was a math class. There was one teacher who said to me, you may hate me now, but I think there'll come a day where you'll look back and you'll be grateful that I didn't just pass you along, that you got the grade that you deserved, and I'm sorry. So he gave me enough, and he was right. I deserved it. That was the grade that I had earned. And it sent me, like I said, to this commitment of never going back. To school ever again. I was over it. I was done. 

Even in the backdrop of you being able to say yes, a lot of times, I think that when we say yes to God, then everything's going to fall neatly into place, and your story illustrates that that is the opposite actually happens. 

Kathy: What other challenges came your way as a result of saying yes? 

Kevin: Yeah, there were certainly other struggles. Academia felt like the biggest one. My mom and my biological father divorced when I was young, before I can even remember. But then my mom remarried when I was four, and so my mom and my stepdad raised us. But my senior year, when things were the toughest for me, I started to sense that something was changing in our family. 

My parents felt distant to one another. My stepdad was traveling a lot more alone than he had used to for business. And it was, I think, October, November that they. Sat me down and basically explained that they were going through a divorce. And it was just a few months that went by that they basically sold the house that I grew up in. My stepdad moved into his own apartment, and my mom moved back to New Jersey where her family was. And so I was, like, failing out of high school, my parents were going through a divorce. I moved in with a friend temporarily and just felt like lost at this stage of my life where you would typically be launching into your life, launching into adulthood. 

I was sort of hitting rock bottom, if you will. One thing that was going well, I should say I had in middle school, started modeling. I grew up in Miami, Florida, and it's a big modeling scene there. And so being a creative person, I felt like that was something that I wanted to participate in, and I did, and my mom and dad were very supportive and put me in classes and got me headshots and got me an agent. And I was with Willamena Models Miami, one of the premier modeling agencies in Miami, and would go out for jobs here and there and really enjoyed it and got some pretty good residuals, as they say, from some of the work. 

As I went into my junior and senior year of high school, my agent started sending me out for commercial auditions. So not just print ads, but TV commercial. And at that time, I booked an American Express commercial, a Bell South commercial, and also a Nike Champs commercial. 

Kevin: As I was failing, as my parents parents marriage was coming to an end, this was the one glimmer of hope for me. I felt like, this is what I want to do. I'm not going to go back to school ever again, but what I want do is move to Los Angeles and pursue my acting career. 

Kathy: Well, you bring up an important point for calling that not only does it become darker at points, but there is still a light on. In the backdrop, and we have to look for the light. And even in the midst of your world falling apart, there was still a light that was pointing you in a direction. Is that correct?

Kevin: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's a really good point, because whenever I feel like God is calling me to say yes again, God's always pointing in the direction of the way that I should go, it's never like this very specific, tangible thing that I should do. And then I do the thing, and I answered the call, and then God is proud. It's often not very specific. It's very directional. And that's kind of been consistent throughout my life that at that time, in my senior year, I felt that God was calling me to Los Angeles. 

I had an idea that I wanted to pursue my acting career, but I was confident that this is the next place, the next step for me to go. Right. So the calling that God has for us is often directional. And what we're saying yes to is to Him, obviously, but the plan that he's giving us is a path, and we just have to walk down the pathway, not have to say yes to the thing at the end of it. 

It's not destinational, it's directional. And I often say sometimes it's follow the crumbs. So follow the crumbs of where you are meant to go. It's very much within where your passions lie and what you like to do. It seems sometimes super obvious, but if you follow the crumbs, you will then see the next crumb and the next crumb. Yeah, absolutely. Follow the crumbs. And I feel like that goes back to this idea of the capital C calling, the lower C calling. 

Because I've had that capital C calling in my life, I think I often naturally look for those big life changing moments. And I think the faith that I've had to develop is to say yes to those little C callings. I think for me, it's harder to say yes. Breadcrumbs to follow the pathway when I don't know exactly where it's going to lead. 

Kathy: We'll be right back.

Announcement: Today's episode is brought to you by Be Well Resources. Be Well is a wellness organization that provides mental and spiritual tools for whole person health. Be Well helps you develop your unique gifts and discover your calling. Follow us on Facebook or Instagram at Be Well Resources to take your next steps toward being well. 

Kathy: Welcome back. And so your directional calling takes you to Los Angeles. What happens there?

Kevin: So part of the plan in me moving to Los Angeles was to attend the American Academy of Dramatic Arts to at least have a transition from, you know, being in school and coming to LA. 

So it wasn't quite school. It was more like creative school. But I continued my patterns of being a poor student and did my first year, wasn't invited back for my second year. And I got to the end of that first year, and I got to a point where I was sensing that I was in the promised Land, meaning I was in the place that God was calling me. 

I felt like I was where I needed to be, but I was missing the promise. And so I felt like it was time to start talking with some folks who were smarter than me, that maybe could speak some wisdom into my life. So I started reaching out to some mentors, some friends, and you were one of them, basically shared with you, if you remember this. You know where I was at, what I was going through, and just felt a little bit lost. 

And you asked me a really interesting and important question. Do you remember that question? The question was, “is acting the only thing that you're called to do?” And my response was no. And I vividly remember telling you, I've never told anybody this before, but ever since I was young, I felt like God was calling me to be a priest. 

 remember you laughing and saying, “A priest? Are you even Catholic anymore? What do you mean, a priest?” I was like, well, if God I'm being called, what else would I be? And you were the first one to introduce to me this idea of being a minister. And I said, what's a minister? I don't even know what that is. And after some conversation, I remember you asking me another important question. If you're being called by God, are you willing to do whatever it takes to answer that call? Meaning, are you willing to say yes to God no matter the cost? And at that time, I got to a point where the answer was yes. I knew that I didn't want to continue to live in a promised land wandering. 

I wanted to be living in the promised land with the promise. You then said, well, if you're willing to do whatever it takes, the next step for you is to go back to school. And I felt devastated, like, oh, no, of course. The very thing the one thing I said I would never, ever, ever do ever again, the one thing that I'm horrible at is the one thing that I'm now being called to go do. So I said, okay, fine. I'll go do my bachelor's degree. I can do that. I could do four years. To which you came back and said, “Well, actually, a minister has a Masters degree.” And at that point, I was like, you know what? Like, I'll do whatever it takes. I'm in. I don't feel like I have what it takes to do it, but if God's calling me to do it, he's going to give me what it takes. Sure. And I would say, too, that calling always involves a cost. And so that's an important point that we see in your life of a financial cost, a cost of going back to do something. 

Kevin: A feeling like this is unattainable, impossible. So the calling, would you say, involves a cost? Oh, for sure. I think more than cost, I would say, like, sacrifice. For me, I had to let go of, first and foremost, my ideas of what my life would be, my idea of how it would go, my idea of the timing, but then also the practical sacrifices that I wanted to move to La. 

Speaker 1 And get an agent, start booking jobs and just be like a famous actor and just be like working in the industry. That's like, what I wanted. And I feel that maybe God was leading me in a different path. 

Speaker 1 And I wasn't very happy with that at that time. I was like, well, why am I in LA then? I can just go be a minister anywhere. Why am I here? And so the cost is first one's will being aligned with what God's will is, but then I think the other cost is, again, practically like, now I'm going back to school. 

I didn't have the financial support from my parents. I wasn't very good in high school, so how am I going to now be successful in college and then go on to get my master's degree? 

Kathy: Like, what overwhelming? 

Kevin: Yeah, it was impossible. It wasn't something I was going to be able to do on my own. By the end of it felt like it was the path of redemption for me, a path of reconciliation that I believed for too long. Whether it was communicated to me directly or if it was just something that I believed subconsciously about myself, that I was dumb, that I couldn't do school, that I wasn't the academic one in the family, that this wasn't my pathway, that I wasn't smart. 

I learned over time that I am smart. I can even, surprisingly, enjoy school. I can succeed, I can be successful. I can do this, and I can enjoy it. 

Kathy: And then what happened then towards the end of your schooling time in terms of the direction of where you were pointed? 

Kevin: It was really in my last year of seminary at Fuller that one of the requirements is to do an internship at a church. And so I was serving at that time at a local church. But needless to say, long story short, I realized very quickly that I did not want to work in a church. I saw the behind the curtain, if you will, and realized, gosh, this is not really where I feel called. So actually, like, I was when I first moved to LA. I was back to a point of like, gosh, I need to reach out and talk to some folks. And again, you were one of those people. You were the one to say to me, “Well, what about chaplaincy?” And I said, what's chaplaincy? I don't even know what that is. What are all these terms that you keep coming up with? I don't even know what that is. And you were the one to find this program. It's called Clinical Pastor Education CPE, and felt like, gosh, this may be a good step or transition. I don't feel called to hospital ministry per se, but maybe a good way to transition where there's some class days and there's some ministry days. 

So I'd be serving, like, in a hospital as a chaplain. And so that's what I did. I signed up to be a chaplain resident at Provident, St. Joe's, and Burbank, and I felt in love with it.

Kathy: And it's interesting that you say that you didn't feel called to hospital ministry, but you must have followed some of the crumbs that you just talked about, and you knew the place where you were supposed to be once again, but you didn't feel like, oh, I want to sign up to work in a hospital. 

Kevin: Exactly the sense that I had. The directional call that I had was away from traditional ministry, away from, like, church ministry, towards the direction of nontraditional ministry. And the only place that that was actually being done and like a formalized job that I would be potentially paid for was hospital chaplaincy. 

And so because I knew chaplaincy was closer to where I was being led, although it wasn't the destination, it was the direction, I went in that direction. That's one of the main things that I've learned in the whole process is that when you say yes, you're not saying yes to the thing per se. 

You're saying yes to God and then saying yes to the people that you're serving along the way. And as you go along your way, you're learning and picking up skills and tools that you're going to then be using through your ministry for the rest of your life. So every time I say yes, I feel like I grow as a person, and every opportunity that I say yes to makes me even better for the next opportunity that comes. 

Kathy: I'm wondering if folks would ask what lessons that you have that you've learned personally about calling. 

Kevin: Yeah, I would say the first is to answer the call. Just say yes. It's hard as I've described, but it's always been worth it. That's the first thing. I think the second thing, too, is if you're being called, if God is calling you to do something, you should also call on your team. Call those people in your life that have been there for you, that have been there with you, who can help you discern what the call is and can support you as you answer the call. And the third thing is that calls can be transferred. 

It's possible that you are serving in one place and then God calls you to serve in another place, and that you take those skills that you learned in that place and serving those people to the next people that God's calling you to. 

Kathy: Well, thank you so much, Kevin, for sharing your journey with us. I know that I've learned a lot and I know our listeners. Going a lot. We just thank you so much.

Kevin: Thank you.